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The directive of this blog is to provide a female perspective on gender relations & power dynamics, set in the context of personal vignettes from relationships and general opinion pieces.

The opinions expressed on this blog are those of the individual authors, and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the entire blog staff.

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35 Comments leave one →
  1. Default User permalink
    September 29, 2009 9:50 am

    This is just a brief stop at the house of hypergamy (or Grl Gme – in honor of the founder).

    I just realized that in some way each of the women represents one of the horsewomen of the hypergamic apocalypse. Each represents the way a man can fail to reach the hypergamic tests of the alpha hunting chick.

    LILGRL: He is not extravert enough.
    Sofia: He is not smart enough.
    lovelysexybeauty: He is not rich enough.
    aoefe: He is not dominant enough.

    I was not sure where to put Bhetti in my (only partly serious) analysis. Therefore, I will call her the fifth horsewoman (formerly ‘tude). She might represent a general disdain for weakness, sappiness, and supplication.

    Of course, a man must pass the brutal trials set by each of the horsewomen before he can claim his status as alpha.

  2. aoefe permalink
    September 29, 2009 10:10 am

    Default you nailed us, but not in the fun way. ;)

  3. Default User permalink
    September 29, 2009 10:15 am

    you nailed us, but not in the fun way. ;)

    I know, I have to develop my alpha side for that to happen.

    and I am working on that.

  4. aoefe permalink
    September 29, 2009 10:23 am

    I’m sure you’ll nail it sooner rather than later.

  5. Default User permalink
    September 29, 2009 10:34 am

    I’m sure you’ll nail it sooner rather than later.

    I am not going to get caught up in an e-flirt so I will just smile.

    :)

  6. aoefe permalink
    September 29, 2009 11:52 am

    Your e-flirt days are done, it’s time to do the real thing young PUA. ;)

  7. September 29, 2009 12:02 pm

    Default User posited:

    …each of the women represents one of the horsewomen of the hypergamic apocalypse.

    LILGRL: He is not extravert enough.
    Sofia: He is not smart enough.
    lovelysexybeauty: He is not rich enough.
    aoefe: He is not dominant enough.

    This is an astute observation, but I would still improve slightly upon this analysis: the parts being equal to the sum of The Perfect 21st century American Woman. Mix n’ Match – like picking out options for your DELL Optiplex. Or your SexBot 2000:

    LILGRL’s abundant derriere
    Sofia’s ample kinkiness
    lovelysexybeauty’s personal hygiene
    aoefe’s racktion
    and last, but certainly not least –
    bhetti’s amazing sense of humour/humor

    Put them all together and you just could create the perfect woman

  8. September 29, 2009 3:59 pm

    Firepower: Are you saying…
    …’I like you for your personality’?
    *runs off, cries*

    Default/aoefe:
    If you put it that way, it’s all surprisingly simplistic what each woman is primarily interested in. Well, except for me, I suppose. According to all sources, including here, I do seem to be impossible to nail down.

  9. aoefe permalink
    September 29, 2009 4:36 pm

    Bhetti truth is you’re impossible to nail.

    And Firepower said YOU were the funny one. hmphff

  10. Lisa permalink
    October 2, 2009 11:47 am

    What’s the point? You guys seem to take most of what the PUA community says for fact. If that is true, then there is no reason for girl game – not even if it would help a woman find the “best man possible” to marry. Because if we’re all washed up at 25/30, why bother? If our husbands won’t be able to have sex with us in a few short years because we are so utterly repulsive and will then spend their time chasing younger women instead of with us or our children why marry?

    I know you say alpha does not equal character. My question is how could character trump biology (in the way PUA’s define it)?

    I think it’s all baseless garbage. I know plenty of men love and desire their wives even as they get older. But that is incompatible with the point of view expressed by your male counterparts. How can you subscribe to the same ideas and not be overcome with self hatred and doubt? I’m 26 and about to get married. But if I truly believed I “hit the wall” last year, then I don’t think I would be doing it. It wouldn’t be worth if if I were about to become so hideously ugly that he couldn’t get it up in the next 4 years. Why sign up for marriage if I knew my husband wouldn’t be able to have sex with me (and if he can’t do it frequently, how can we have kids?) and would spend most of his sexual energy fantasizing about or pursuing teenagers? That would be a truly miserable marriage and a waste of my life.

  11. aoefe permalink
    October 2, 2009 3:05 pm

    Thanks for sharing Lisa. Truthfully we’re here to send a different message. There is an audience at Roissy that perhaps, how shall I say it…needs some edumucatin from women. We’ve listened to the boys club and have our own opinions on relationships. My post about character is expanding on the biological position that it’s only about drive. If that were true we’d be living in gutters. We’re not animals – we’re human beings with spiritual, emotional, physical and mental sides. Some men and maybe some women have lost site of this. Please stick around.

  12. October 2, 2009 3:39 pm

    Lisa,

    I wrote a post on this last night actually, but it’ll be published in a few days.

  13. October 2, 2009 4:23 pm

    We’re not animals – we’re human beings with spiritual, emotional, physical and mental sides. Some men and maybe some women have lost site of this.

    I knew I liked you, aoefe! <3

  14. aoefe permalink
    October 2, 2009 7:17 pm

    knew I liked you, aoefe!

    Cool – I like you too! (aren’t girls mushy??)

  15. lovelysexybeauty permalink
    October 3, 2009 12:49 pm

    Lisa – I understand your feelings. I’ve gone through the same things as well when I read Roissy and those other PUA blogs. It’s frustrating, it’s depressing, it makes you wonder why we should care…

    I look at it a bit like this: when guys get together, they tend to talk in a certain way where they talk bigger than real life. They overexaggerate. On Roissy, many of them are frustrated and insecure guys and speaking in extremes out of anger or furstration. (Don’t listen to what guys say watch how they act)

    I have had the same debate as you, about whether a guy who supposedly loves me and wants to marry me will feel that way forever. But look around you girl…there are plenty of men out there who do stay in love. Sure, they may notice the hot teen girl as well, but they go back to their wives/mother of their children/partner in crime/solid rock/hot girl he got to marry him.

    Just like for some us girls, we buy shoes from let’s say, DSW. Then we walk by the Jimmy Choo store and we’re like oh man, I wish I had those shoes instead. But there’s a big cost to those Jimmy Choos for most of us, right? We somehow control our urges? Why not men then? Even on Roissy they talked about Tinsley Mortimer leaving her husband to be with some prince guy (“more Alpha,” they said). A better woman wouldn’t have done that.

  16. msexceptiontotherule permalink
    October 8, 2009 6:41 am

    So I’ve spent the last few days doing some serious research into the beliefs and premises of the “men’s rights movement/father’s rights activists”, which eventually led me to a feminist community that seriously disturbed me. After landing on that corner of the web thanks to a search term of “sexism and feminists”; I couldn’t believe how often the women were offended by being labeled for actions that really did fit the fem-nazi (among others) stereotype. Example: news columnist with prostate cancer which he was prescribed lupron as part of the treatment, expresses a newfound understanding of what his wife was experiencing with menopause – particularly comforted that they were essentially going through it at the same time. Response from women after reading his article: how dare he tell women that they’re hormonal when they’re going through menopause. He’s such an insensitive jerk, his wife should leave him. Why do men always assume that women have to be a certain way during the stages in life that they go through.

    I understand that the guy did sort of seem awkward in his presentation, but he was talking about something that most guys would never share if they were going through that. Not only that, but he was also telling the readers that through having essentially the same experience (lupron tends to cause even more severe side effects for men that mimic the symptoms women experience during menopause.) he better understands and accepts his wife.

    Then, I found the anti-feminist guy who is apparently very angry, but probably not as much as he’s going to be now that I shared the missing portion of the statistics on domestic violence which I can only assume was intended to mislead people into believing that men have exceeded by tens of thousands in the number of cases involving women as the attacker and men as the victim. Good thing I happened to have the exact numbers and knew where his original data came from…after all, he’s going to have to work really hard to try and turn the cold facts and statistics into “the shrill words of a feminist that fail to prove anything but the lack of intelligence and logic.”

    Who knows, he’ll probably be the typical guy so he can justify not publishing my comment without having to feel like he’s been schooled by a female (which, based on how angry he seems to be – he has a hard time making any sense, and his own arguments are illogical and most are simply presumptions from the mind of a guy who hates all before they can hate him first.) – he’s definitely had trouble getting any women to talk to him, but that might have to do with his need to name-call women, even just the ones on tv aren’t spared. Maybe if he would just admit that he loves men, he wouldn’t be quite so angry.

    And men aren’t “supposed” to control their urges, as long as those urges are for hot young and nubile girls under the age of 25 (being generous with the age, since the R-listers have been instructed to get their hands on a girl when she’s 20-21 for optimum shelf-life) who don’t make them feel like they might have to step up their game to the level of …real… Game is not real, game is something that is practiced and developed into something that still isn’t going to be real – if someone goes out with the intent of using a totally fake persona that they’ve spent a really long time working to create for the purpose of luring women into sex in a hotel or her place since his house is totally off limits for that, uses methods they’ve learned from a book or pua community sites, and looks at women with the same outright jaded and rejected-one-time-too-many way view of their worshipped pua-masters.

    Pua’s might wake up one morning and discover that for all the fun they had when they were younger, they have medical problems that prevent them from medications for E.D. and they might even get a little bit lonely once they realize that all the sex with any girl they want isn’t terribly fulfilling nor does it provide the kind of warmth, enduring companionship and comfort as the days pass and one finds themselves in the twilight of life that can only be found in a good woman.

  17. Pupu permalink
    October 8, 2009 5:13 pm

    msexceptiontotherule always has the best avatar!

  18. aoefe permalink
    October 8, 2009 6:22 pm

    Ms Exception made an excellent commentary. Thanks.

  19. collegeboy permalink
    October 9, 2009 12:15 am

    msexception(to no) rules: re: game:

    Game is fake? puhhleeezzz. Game has been going on since the dawn of time. The only reason why some women (not all) don’t like it is because it kind of messes with the natural order of things (alphas are born/made.) They just don’t like the fact that any beta can learn this, apply this, and score with a woman he desires. It also doesn’t help for the women that this info is out, practically free,and that he whole attraction- comfort-seduction sequence has been stripped down to a tee.

    they might even get a little bit lonely once they realize that all the sex with any girl they want isn’t terribly fulfilling nor does it provide the kind of warmth, enduring companionship and comfort

    Thats a nice seductive little argument but its bull. So is a guy is just suppose to straddle along in betatude and hopefully just find the “one” out of sheer luck? NO.
    Not in this day and age. Get real. A guy needs to go through all the sex and experiences in order to make sure that if he ever meets the “one” she may not slip away that easily.

    Look at it objectively.

    as the days pass and one finds themselves in the twilight of life that can only be found in a good woman.

    Define a “good” women.

  20. msexceptiontotherule permalink
    October 10, 2009 7:13 am

    college boy:

    The definition of what constitutes as a “good” woman is subjective. After all, I wouldn’t be staying true to myself and my ideology if I were to say that there is a specific definition for “good” women considering how many variations exist in the definition of “good” men. It’s a little ridiculous for anyone to assume that there cannot be anything but black and white (not referring to race), or in your case, betalife is the only thing left after alpha and between that and the tragic omega. Maybe I’m a little idealistic despite being widowed before anyone should ever experience such a deep loss, but I sincerely doubt that fucking as many girls as possible will make any man more able to recognize their “one” when she happens to come along.

    And game is just as fake as makeup, high heels, breast implants, and sexy clothes (sexy, not trashy) – both genders have their ways of making themselve more attractive to the opposite sex. I *do* look at things objectively, that’s what is so maddening – I don’t claim to know everything, nor do I see myself as being superior over all. I *do* know a hell of a lot, and what I don’t know yet, don’t worry – I will soon. As for your reasoning behind why some women are against game, who said that I was making any statement against guys using game? I understand that there will always be a natural tendency towards a hierarchy, and despite the tendency to think that everything has to fit inside the one box and nothing exists outside of that one box, there are always going to be exceptions to every theory or social model. I married my soulmate, and it was great, unfortunately things are not always in our power to control and I miss him terribly – so much that not a day goes by where I don’t have to sneak off and cry several times because of the reminders that manage to turn up – even the smallest things, like finding one of the notes scribbled on a piece of paper that he had tucked into pockets and purses for me to find that I keep discovering despite going through everything many times over.

    One last thing….a guy (in my opinion, for what it’s worth) is never a true alpha until he knows that he could have any woman he wants when he wants them, but chooses to exercise some self-control by being discriminating about who he actually sleeps with. Maybe it’s something that only works for guys who never had trouble with getting women interested in them, but it’s certainly a quality that makes a man worth the trouble.

  21. msexceptiontotherule permalink
    October 12, 2009 12:52 am

    hmmm…I wonder if my response was too long and had too many big words in it for the self-proclaimed collegeBOY. Oh well. Never say I don’t take a side, albeit in a cautious manner.

  22. aoefe permalink
    October 12, 2009 1:03 am

    I like your style Ms. Exception. :)

  23. msexceptiontotherule permalink
    October 12, 2009 1:17 am

    Now if only I can figure out how to exchange the blog listings with other people. I’m still learning how blogs work in general, which can be a little slow thanks to how many other tasks have to be done simultaneously, most of them I get paid (or could get fired if not done) to be doing. I wish I still had bereavement leave time left, it was nice being able to stay inside with the windows and everything else closed up so that the light wouldn’t come in the house – great for sleeping the days away, not so good for making sure that you don’t get vitamin d deficiency, and forces daily sunscreen use for an undetermined length of time afterwards. Oh well, I guess that would have been something I’d have had to do now that I’m no longer 20something and considered past my prime to some men….(sigh) like I would have been interested in them anyway.

  24. October 14, 2009 4:04 pm

    msexceptiontotherule, I am really sorry to hear about the loss of your soulmate. It chokes me up to read and think about those who have lost their loved ones to a cruel twist of fate. To experience such happiness, and then to have that yanked away from you… it’s not fair. But our whole lives are like this. We will all die one day.

    Every morning before I go off to work I tell my fiance, “Please be safe.” It is an intense fear of mine to think about having to live without him. We have talked about it from time to time. While we concluded, “What happens is always a lesson,” and we could go on, it would be difficult indeed.

    He and I both feel like we have known each other for much longer than we actually have. We have a good time making up wild conjectures about how we knew each other before this lifetime and that we will know each other after we shed this version of our mortal coil. Yeah, maybe we are deluding ourselves, but then… so what?

    I am reading a book called Seth Speaks: The Eternal Validity of the Soul. It is not about grief specifically, but it talks about death and rebirth. It may help you, or you may think it’s totally nuts. It was recommended to me, and although I am a very skeptical person, I find it a good theory to ponder.

    In some ways it seems like you are reluctant to let go, because that would somehow diminish what you and he shared. But I think, if he could communicate with you from the other world, he would wish that you would move on, and he would want to see you happy. So please take care of yourself.

    Take your time; don’t berate yourself for taking any amount of time to grieve. 10 years is a long time, but it is a testament to the strength of your love. But I think some day, when you are ready, you will find someone new whom you can accept into your life. Forget about what the boys say about you being “past your prime.” I will give you the advice I was given: focus on the light; stay in the light.

  25. msexceptiontotherule permalink
    October 14, 2009 10:17 pm

    Hope:

    It won’t be all that surprising (probably) to find that you’re the first female outside of family to say anything remotely positive to me regarding how to deal with the loss I’ve experienced. Thank you.

  26. October 15, 2009 2:24 am

    Actually it is very surprising! I am sorry again to hear that you have not experienced much social support outside your family. Perhaps part of it is that others do not really know what to say to console you, and so they abstain from it for fear of offending you. Or perhaps it is just that in society now we are so loathe to show emotions that we do not know how to properly respond to someone who shows them.

    I can also assure you that there are tons of people out there who are far wiser, far more compassionate and more caring than I could even aspire to at this point. There are more positive places on the Internet like this one that may offer you more solace, and you can talk to others who have lost loved ones. There are moderators at this place to keep out the people who would try to mess it up.

    Among the greatest antidotes that I have found to my own pain is offering love to those who need it. I wish you well and please do take care of yourself, and love yourself, just as you loved the one you have lost.

  27. msexceptiontotherule permalink
    October 15, 2009 3:21 am

    Since the mr. and I weren’t living on base, it was probably easier for everyone who would have known pretty much right away to avoid anything that would remind them of a very real possibility of losing their own husbands and fiances who are still deployed overseas. The majority of my female friends are married or involved with non-military personnel, which would likely make them feel ill-prepared to be supportive with my situation. Still, it would have been nice to hear from people without knowing that it was because they’d gotten calls from my family or after the news went around. But I knew when we married that I might be having to deal with this – it’s a little harder when they won’t give you any real information, and on top of everything there’s no way to bring him home either – security is the most important, which I understand for the sake of the other men who are likely still in such serious danger because of the operations he was involved in. That, and now, there’s not a lot of national support for the war…I’ve actually heard people criticizing the military for being there, like it’s something those enlisted in any branch get to choose to go or not to. I’d probably ignore it if they were just against it, rather than negatively commenting on the men and women who are only doing their jobs.

  28. October 15, 2009 12:14 pm

    I had suspected that it was more of a shock and out-of-the-blue situation. That is much harder to deal with than if he were sick and you had just a little more time to spend with him. It must have been so much harder to not even get to hold him or see him or touch him one last time before he was gone. There’s no way around the security issue, but that must really haunt you, not having any finality of seeing even the last of him. That is extremely difficult… no way around it.

    I do not know about your friends, but often people don’t want to be reminded of painful things. They might avoid talking about it with you because it gets them sad or emotional, and they would rather try to hide that aspect of things. And really, how can they even “understand”? It’s unthinkable, so they don’t want to think about it.

    This is just one of those situations that most decent people do not know how to deal with, and beyond that some less than savory people will be dismissive. Especially nowadays when humans emotions are devalued while superficial things (looks, status, prestige, etc.) are overvalued.

    There are lots of guys who will be quicker to point out the military spouses who cheat and divorce, but who will be completely silent regarding your case. Those people, in my opinion, are not worth listening to. They are just presenting this macho front, hiding their own insecurities and pasts because everyone is taught to do that. Men cannot show more emotion than women for whatever reason… and because women are trying to become more like men they aren’t showing it either nowadays. This society, it is what it is.

    True, there is not a lot of support for the wars these days, but a lot of the non-supporters are military personnel or ex-military themselves. I have read countless statements from returning soldiers that they do not want to be re-deployed, along with family members who do not want their loved ones to risk their lives. I have talked to lots of them, too (I spend a lot of time playing MMORPGs, and a lot of military folks do as well).

    There are people who do not really understand the human level decisions and will criticize anyone they feel is not 100% with them on an issue. Don’t let that get to you; a lot of negativity permeates every discussion nowadays. If you really talked to some of them on a one-to-one basis I am sure if they have any ounce of decency, they would feel terribly for your situation. There are lots of support the troops folks among those who were against the war since the beginning, and some of them were/are veterans as well.

    Circumstances have made it so that we have all become a little bit crazy in this world. Men, women, adults, children, everybody’s going nuts, trying to fit in, trying to hate, trying to one-up other people, trying to find some gold and pleasure before we croak. Sometimes you just have to live outside all this noise. The pro-feminists, anti-feminists, the pro-war, the anti-war, the left, the right, the up, the down… it’s all such separatist BS. Sometimes, it seems like there’s just so much suffering and pain in the world, makes one want to leave it all behind. But we do have this gift called life. All we can do is make the best of our own little world, before our gift expires…

  29. msexceptiontotherule permalink
    October 15, 2009 6:34 pm

    Hope: You have no idea how much cheating goes on while one spouse is deployed, it’s awful, I was horrified with the limited time I was exposed to seeing it. But I understand why the troops have gotten to the point where they’d do just about anything to avoid going back for another tour. The weirdest part is that it’s not always the women who are left at home and cheating, although they do make up the majority.

    Sometimes it would be weeks where I didn’t hear anything, but usually I would hear from him once or twice a week, he tried to make it a point to do that for me because he knew how much I worried normally so if it was a while longer in between it would multiply x 10. Then there was the one family member who said “At least you didn’t have any children yet.” – now that was a bit of a shock in the insensitive category. There was no point for me to have responded with telling them we’d planned to start trying after he would have returned home. For the time being, I try to focus on my work and both my dog and cat who need my attention and care. Since I’ve always been pretty private about certain things in my life, even around friends that I’ve known for years, I’m more comfortable getting my feet wet by talking to people online and feel very much un-ready to venture out socially (particularly after the one disaster of a night a while back.). I don’t think I’ll have any clue about what I’m supposed to be doing when I DO end up back out socially – I haven’t had to worry about any of it for 10 years with dating-engaged-married time put together. My job affords me a fair amount of time working on things independently, which is usually only interrupted when someone needs the paperwork for a file I’ve already prepared and gone through the necessary protocol on. Afternoons are usually spent making sure that people are doing what they’re supposed to, since I’m charged with the responsibilities that are part and parcel of having the highest job rank in my unit. And there’s always something I end up bringing home to get done before work the next day. Lots of things that should be enough to distract me, but still, the search for something with the human interaction element has landed me online.

    I’d be lying if I said that the quiet didn’t drive me half-crazy sometimes. My immediate family lives across the country, I don’t have more than a handful of friends – which I don’t talk to as much now, people have their own lives and big events of their own like getting married, having a family, etc….and my neighbors probably think I’m nuts because to them I sound like I’m talking to myself, when I’m actually talking to my animals, and occasionally my mother. Everything depressing aside, I still believe that good and decent people exist, and that things happen for a reason…even if I don’t like the reason, it still has something to teach me. I don’t know why, but I can usually see a lesson in everything that happens in my life. Now if I could just do something with it all that would change someone else’s life for the better; the chance to personally make a difference in the world somehow is what I see as the ultimate success.

  30. AHA permalink
    December 11, 2009 9:09 am

    Hey, I am looking for someone to write an article on FPUA for my magazine. Please get in touch.

  31. December 11, 2009 10:16 am

    AHA – you want us to super sleuth your contact info? ;)

  32. tannen permalink
    January 24, 2010 5:03 am

    hello Aoefe… interesting blog. Good to see how the other half thinks, rather than have to watch various weather patterns and other mysterious phenomena to augur what women think about things. Surprised you have Novaseeker on your blogroll, good on you for that. Will be dropping by in the future.

    All the best from BC.

  33. January 24, 2010 8:34 pm

    Thanks Tannen. I also find it interesting learning about how the other half thinks — we do have unique ways of looking at things. That said we have quite a few similarities too. Nova is well respected around these parts. Thanks for dropping by – come again soon!

  34. Larz Blackman permalink
    December 13, 2010 2:26 am

    FPUA? What a joke. Another example of the unoriginality so common among women — take a man’s idea or role and slap some tits on it. Great.

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